The Walkers - Villains with A Smile!

 

One may smile, and smile, and be a villain."

--William Shakespeare,
British playwright

Anyone that has read Dixie Davey Walker’s last few newsletters will see that she is trying to make it seem to her readers that she and John are still in Ecuador. This is hardly the case.

In her latest newsletter dated March 19, 2011, Dixie Davey Walker states this: “Looking at what is happening around the world today you cannot help but feel for the many people who are losing family, friends, pets, entire homes and their lives as they once knew it.”

Give me a break! Now, suddenly the Walkers have “feelings” for people’s suffering. What about the suffering my wife and I and the other innocent investors have endured due to their direct criminal acts? What about us struggling to rebuild our lives as we once knew it?

No doubt that what has happened and is happening in Japan is truly heart-wrenching. That was a natural disaster; an act of nature that has happened throughout world history. What the Walkers have done with their Ayampe scam, however, is an intentional, willful and malicious crime! They STOLE money and misused people’s trust purely for personal gain without any regard for the honest people they violated!

For the Walkers to try to assert now that they are compassionate people is totally without merit. In fact, it further shows the depths of their conceit and arrogance. The Walkers do not have any sense of doing what is professionally or ethically prudent.

Reviewing the Walker’s Website Q & A page, they make these assertions when answering questions from readers:

“Q – How do I know which Realtor to choose?

A – You don’t. But in Cuenca, Cotacachi and the coast I can certainly help with recommendations.

Q - How do you transfer money to Ecuador before you have opened a bank account in Ecuador?

 A – George - the only way you can transfer money safely is to have an appointed Attorney in Ecuador who will take your funds into their trust account….”

Once again, the Walkers show their arrogance by telling their readers that they can help with real estate recommendations. ARE THEY SERIOUS? Then they say appoint an attorney with “a trust fund” for your money. Isn’t that what they told the investors they would do, Set Up a “TRUST” fund to protect our money?

From the Walkers Newsletter dated February 25, 2011, Dixie Davey states: “In the past I have written quite a large number of newsletters about our fun, observations and sometimes exciting escapades. But there has also been a lot happen in our lives that we did not report for commercial, and sometimes legal, reasons.”

These are the same people that “reported” on their Ayampe “Project” for a year that ALL was well; everything is on target; titles to investors will be issued next week, in two weeks, sometime soon. NOW, they have chosen to DELETE and/or ALTER EVERY Newsletter that show their corrupt intentions with their Ayampe “Project”!

The Walkers are working hard to cover up their criminal past any way they can. Purposely trying to deceive people by separating themselves from the truth.

It also amazes me that the Walkers are portraying themselves as VICTIMS! Oh, the poor Walkers. Why are they running NOW; why are they deleting pages from their website; why are they not working on compensating their victims if they are such innocent, sweet (as one of their “friends” described them to us)! Why? Because they are what they are … CON ARTIST & LIARS! Scammers on the run!

Here is another “original” post from the Walkers. This publication was posted on their website on January 26, 2009, when the Walkers were starting their scam. Of course, the post is no longer listed on their website back issues page (hmmmmm ... I wonder WHY?).

Retire in Ecuador - The best Real Estate deal in Ecuador.
January 26, 2009 Hola All

The best Real Estate deal in Ecuador

The Best Real Estate Deal In Ecuador (or almost anywhere) – We think!!!

From John again.

Ever wished you had won lotto? Or had some inside information to make a killing on a horse race, or a share trade?

Well this might be a lucky opportunity for 10 people, or 10 syndicates.

Since first arriving in Ecuador in February 2008, I have been working with Ruy Quevedo to help fund and develop his 12 hectare (30 acres) beach front property at Ayampe. I have always thought it a great opportunity, because the property is located on a unique strip where the rain forest goes right down to the ocean. It’s our favorite area of the Ecuador coast. Ayampe is also only about 30 minutes north of Montanita, Ecuador’s famous and vibrant surf town – a very popular spot for all local surfers and young foreign travelers. Mind you, some of us more mature “baby boomers” also love it.

The passage of time over the last 12 months has now worked in our favor. Ecuador property prices have risen substantially in the last 12 months, and don’t seem to be abating. The worse the US economy gets, the more inquiry we seem to receive for investment and residency.

Since returning last September, I have become even more involved in the Ayampe project and we have thrashed out a number of funding scenarios. Finally, just a few days ago, while speaking with the project architect, I thought of a great idea to fund the development and provide a secure investment and return for only 10 investors who also want to own beach front property.

The proposed development has 11 large properties that are nearest the ocean. A hotel resort on 6,500 sq meters is planned to be in the center of these 11 properties.

The full proposal is a combination of 126 condos, 21 smaller villas and the 11 large villas at the front nearest the ocean. The condos now have the option of being split to make smaller units, so that the total number will be higher than the initial proposal. There is a protective vegetation reserve and lagoon between the development and the ocean.

An amount of $650,000 is required to complete the initial infrastructure and build a display home before sales can commence. Ruy does not want to incur any debt, and is prepared to give away a substantial proportion of the development profits in order to fund the $650,000. His primary motive is to get paid for the land, and then take a much smaller share of the profits in exchange for flexible repayment terms (no interest and the payments to come from sales). This makes the project have a low risk profile – or “very low risk of bankruptcy” as I prefer to term it. In a worst case, if for some reason the project is delayed, it will not eat its head off with interest payments.

So my recent suggestion to Ruy is that he sells 10 of the 11 large front lots for an average of $65,000 each (10 x $65,000 = $650,000). The areas vary, so the values will probably range between $55,000 and $75,000. These lots are very large – varying from 1,700 sq meters to 2,500 sq meters. So the average price is only about $30 per sq metre – land only.

Now the real bonus in this deal is that on each large lot, we will also build a 300 sq meter luxury 3-4 bedroom home, with a swimming pool or large Jacuzzi with all the landscaping completed – for ZERO charge. The only catch is that these houses will only be built after the rest of the development is mostly completed and sold.

The first 10 buyers are therefore funding the infrastructure, but still getting unencumbered title to 10 of the best properties in the project. They then get the upside of a free luxury home after the balance of the project is mostly sold. These houses are in effect the profit-share that is being given away by Ruy to make it all happen.

So is there anyone interested in this opportunity? One lot has already been taken (in just 24 hours since I wrote to a few friends) so there are now 9 to go. The lots will be sold on a first-come, first-served basis.

If anyone is interested in this opportunity, please get back to us and we can provide more detail as to the structure, security and other relevant details.

Summary:

For $55,000 - $75,000 you receive:

1. 1,700 – 2,500 square meters of prime beach front land
2. Unencumbered title to this land
3. 300 square meters of modern 2-storey home, with swimming pool or large Jacuzzi and landscaped gardens.
4. Security provided by development
5. Rental services provided by hotel/resort if required (for a fee)
6. Cleaning and gardening services available (at your expense)
7. Cable TV and Internet access available (at your expense)
8. Access to hotel/resort and adventure and tourist services
9. Free access to whale watching in season (the area is famous for it).

Note: this is also a great opportunity to syndicate or buy a “time share” together. For example, six different families could chip in about $10,000 - $12,000 each and have access to a great South American holiday home on the coast and near Montanita.

Contact us for any further details.

Have a great week.

Hasta Luego

John  and Dixie

Given the FACTS (as Dixie Davey Walker likes to say), the above was the start of the scam by the Walkers. More FACTS about these parasites are coming soon. As I have said before, STAY AWAY FROM THESE PREDATORS! They are still on the run from Ecuador for a reason. However, our "ghosts" are closing in on them quickly!!!

THE WALKERS – SCAMMERS ON THE RUN!!!

Above are the crooks enjoying beach life at Ayampe in the summer of 2009. The rent for this house and their beachlife was PAID FOR WITH INVESTORS MONEY they ripped off!

NOW, THE crooked Walkers, John & Dixie Davey, are on the RUN! 

They have disappeared from Cuenca like a fart in the wind. But we have some very capable, honest people, let’s call them “ghosts”, looking for them and they will be found! Make no mistake about it.

It amuses me that Dixie Davey Walker writes in her latest newsletter that,

“Valentine’s Day for me has a special meaning for quite a few different reasons and  celebrations.  This year marks another milestone in our lives and you will be able to read more about that in the future.”

I can only imagine how enjoyable it is to be living a life hiding out from people because you have so many enemies from people you scammed! Yes, The Walkers must really be enjoying their new life. Having to hide out and be fearful … all because of greed, deception, and lies. Quite a “milestone”! What A LIFE!

The Walkers have to ask themselves this question …. Was it worth the money? Was it worth cheating honest people out of their savings? They will pay a high price for what they did. They could have come clear, but they decided otherwise by blaming others.

Will this “milestone year” (as Dixie Davey calls it), involve more lies and deception? Will it involve more fake “Projects” that involve ripping people off by promising everything and doing NOTHING??? Will it involve more mistrust?

I hope the money they stole was worth it, because they will not get to enjoy it for long.

The Walkers have continually threatened us and other people as well as called us all sort of names. Now THEY are on the run. Fearful of what the next move against them will be!

Not only are they running, these crooks have gone so far as to delete or alter all of the blog posts relating to their Ayampe scam in 2009. Is that the sign of honest people looking for “new milestones”?

I present once again, more of the deception the Walkers presented in February 2009 while selling their scam:

From John Walker, Feb 27, 2009: “PPPS. Gary Phillips has agreed to come on board as our principal sales and marketing person, even though he and Linda have their own dream project in Cotacachi to follow and we hope that we can help them achieve that. It is our wish that we can develop a team of people who can work together help each to follow their dreams. We have someone in mind who we hope will help us both leverage our time. She has a Masters in Real Estate Development.”

However, on March 9, 2010, in response to investors’ questions about where did all the money they collected go without any semblance of a “Project”, John Walker said this: “Below are parts of the Banco del Pichincha documents to open an account in Panama (balance of document available if required). The only way a Panama account could be opened for the project was with the use of investor funds.”

If that is the truth, then why did John & Dixie Walker not give the investors the money back from that account? The answer is simple: they only deposited $5,000 into the account and then claimed to have withdrawn the funds less than two months later.

In other words, John Walker was saying, “Dixie and I have opened a Banco Pichincha account in Panama with your funds so you cannot get them back!” (My interpretation of their smugness.) Again, keep in mind, the last “known” investor was instructed by Dixie Walker to deposit her $10,000 into the bank account in Panama.

Why did the Walkers have this smug arrogant attitude? Because a month earlier, on February 4, 2010, in a letter to all investors, John Walker was quick to point out that the investors should not go after him for compensation:

  

“PPPS. And to pursue me for financial compensation would also be pointless. We came to Ecuador virtually broke because our FDA (equivalent) closed us down in Australia (just for selling water alkalizers and zeolite). The apartment in Cuenca is owned by Dixie’s pension fund which is not financially accessible until she retires. The money (if it was sold) is not even accessible to Dixie herself. And Dixie was not legally involved in Eco Ecuador Living or the Ayampe project.”

So now the world is suppose to believe the Walkers when they tell a totally different story from what they constantly “sold” the investors?

We are led to believe that John Walker was shut down in Australia for selling water filters. We are supposed to believe that?

We are supposed to believe that Dixie was not legally involved? Oh, Really??? Did Dixie Davey Walker not admit to setting up and running the now defunct website “Eco-Ecuador Living.com” specifically for the purpose of promoting the Walkers Project? Did she not send specific deposit instructions to investors? Deposit instructions with full account numbers about where the money was to be deposited? NOT involved, HUH? Everyone else must be confused or making things up!

It amazes me that John & Dixie Walker keep saying that EVERYONE else is wrong. EVERYONE else is lying. EVERYONE else is a criminal. YET, THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES IN HIDING AND ON THE RUN NOW! (With stolen money from innocent investors.)

That is truly amazing!!!

Australian Scammers In Ecuador - John & Dixie Davey Walker

In the last BLOG, I asked and answered the question: “The Walkers – Pathetic or What?” We all know the answer by now. I have asked if the Walker’s will have redemption in 2011. So far, they have ignored that question as they have for the past year.

The Walkers still refuse to answer these basic questions to anyone they scammed (or to the world for that matter):

• Where did all the money you received go?
• What was it spent on that related to your “Ayampe Project”?
• What  specifically was the money spent on???? By whom specifically????

The Walkers have continued to avoid their responsibility to the people that placed “TRUST” in them. I have asked them and pleaded with them to give us our money back. Instead they have:

• Personally threatened me (see Email from John Walker);
• Cursed me and called me names;
• Called others they scammed names.
• Repeatedly claimed that their Ecuadorian partner is the real person that scammed people (They have said all of this without ever providing one shred of evidence to prove their claim).
• Went on a campaign to have some websites pull my BLOGs and comments because they are afraid of the world knowing the truth about them.

The Walkers say that they will SUE anyone that they claim defames them. Then why have they not done that? Why have they not sued me since they claim I am defaming them?

I say to the Walkers …. SUE ME!!! Prove me wrong. Prove DEFAMATION! Either in a USA court or Ecuadorian court. Please, please SUE ME! Take me to court with your “evidence” vs. my “evidence”! The truth is the Walkers try to intimidate anyone that speaks the truth about them. They know they have no chance in a court of law!

Dixie Davey Walker likes to very smugly state “get your facts right”. So I have and I will continue to expose the Walkers to the world. I have and I will continue to show the Walkers as what they are: liars, con artist and thieves!

Ironically, in his attempt to accuse me of not telling the truth, John Walker so boldly stated that this, “… I now intend to raise funds from our subscribers to fight you and Ruy. To make claims against us without a Court Order is a serious offense – at least in the USA where you have published your claims. The maximum sentence is 10 years jail – plus damages. It is also a serious offence in Ecuador.”

Once again, I say to the Walkers, SUE ME!!!!

In a further attempt to deceive their innocent subscribers and intimidate their victims, Dixie Davey Walker makes this statement in her January 23, 2011, newsletter:

“Important note to all readers:

All Newsletters and content on the website www.retire-in-ecuador.com are copyright and use of photos or any other material taken from my website without permission shall be deemed as an infringement of the copyright laws.”

Does she even know what the copyright laws are? Does Dixie Davey Walker even know what constitutes a copyright? Given that she and John reword copy from other websites and information sources, what are they “deeming” as infringement?

Now back to the Walkers scam setup. Here is the ACTUAL BLOG the Walker’s published on January 29, 2009. They wrote this when they were writing and telephoning me constantly to invest with them. They actually referred me to their website as “proof” of how BIG their Ayampe project was. As you can read, they even published promises about how the money would be refunded if either of the stated conditions were not met. From their own website on January 29, 2009:

Retire in Ecuador -

Beach front Opportunity
January 29, 2009 Hola All

Beach Front Opportunity

The deal is going fast, so don’t wait too long to make a decision.

It has now only been four days since John came up with this idea of selling 10 large lots at Ayampe for an average of only US$65,000 – and to also include a 300 square meter house and swimming pool etc.

Six (6) lots have already been spoken for.

So if you want one of the once-in-a lifetime opportunities, please get in quick. The way things are going, the deal will be sold-out within the next 7-10 days. One person is even thinking about taking more than one lot.

Another incentive idea

Another person has also said that he doesn’t want to wait for us to build his 300m2 house, and that he would prefer to build at his own expense and then we reimburse him at a later date – at an agreed amount and milestone.

That is perfectly acceptable. In fact we will even pay a share of the selling budget for the first three people who make this same decision. These houses will be like display homes, so it would help the project substantially if some of these front houses are built in advance.  We only request that we have access to the house for showing potential buyers of other properties. The incentive will be the greatest for the first person who commits to such a decision. The rebate could be as high as $50,000 for the first person – paid as a percentage of all sales after the house has been completed.

So make a decision quickly. We are asking for a 10% deposit (US$6,500) payable on a credit card (Visa or Mastercard) or bank transfer and the balance as soon as the legal trust is established (within two weeks). This purchase price is 100% refundable if (1) you do not get legal title to your selected lot, or (2) the 10 lots are not sold.

Ciao for now

Dixie and John

Note that the Walkers both signed this newsletter. Does the above sound unclear? Does their article not “represent” that a “trust will be established in two weeks? Now then, how does it now go to being untrue when I ask for my money back????

Then on March 15, 2009, Dixie Davey Walker wrote this on her BLOG: 

     “ … The other reason we have not written is that the last couple of weeks we have been extremely busy and not always in range of good internet services to upload photos etc. We spent a week in Quito at the International Living Conference and met some wonderful people.  A few have also followed us to Cuenca and many have also been keen to see our Ayampe coastal development.  Our new website is now up and running with more information about the Ayampe development www.eco-ecuador-living.com.

Unfortunately we received some bad publicity at Quito from an insecure and jealous expat who claims himself a “Guru” of Ecuador.  All I can say at present is that he did not realize who he was dealing with. He thought it was expats that he could badmouth, and did not realize that the principals are our Ecuadorian partners. The matter is now in the hands of our partner’s lawyers. It is a serious offense in Ecuador to make false statements about someone.

John and I work very closely with our Ecuadorian partners and we do not claim to know the Ecuadorian rules and regulations.  Our choice is to have Ecuadorian partners and we all work very well together. Our opinion is that they know a lot more about Ecuador than any expat. They are both very well educated and have long and very credible family histories in this country…

So two years ago the Walkers admitted that they do not claim to know the Ecuadorian rules and regulations. Now the Walkers have gone to advising people about Ecuadorian “LAW”! (Their newsletter dated January 9, 2011.)

How did they get so “knowledgeable” in two years? Have they gotten a “LAW DEGREE” in Ecuador? Or are they now trying to cover their tracks from the Ayampe scam they ran?

The Walkers have removed or altered both of these posts (as well as other post) from their “Back Issues” page. No need to worry, though, as I said, I have them ALL in the ORIGINAL formats and I will offer them as proof and evidence in my exposure of these two predators. Can you trust these people? Read ALL of my BLOGs and make your own decision.

The Walkers have totally “misrepresented” the truth and the facts. What other reason do they have for removing and altering the ORIGINAL posts on their website concerning the promotion of their Ayampe Project? According to Dictionary.com, misrepresentation is defined as follows:

Misrepresentation

Function: noun

An intentionally or sometimes negligently false representation made verbally, by conduct, or sometimes by nondisclosure or concealment and often for the purpose of deceiving, defrauding, or causing another to rely on it detrimentally; also: an act or instance of making such a representation.

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc. 
Cite This Source

The FACTS about the Walkers remain simple:

FACT: The Walkers misrepresented the use of investment funds in their so-called Ayampe Project.

FACT: The Walkers have NEVER accounted for the spending of the over $100,000 they are known to have collected from investors.

FACT: The Walkers had the last known investor send her funds to an account in Panama when all other funds were sent to John Walker’s personal account in Ecuador. This last known deposit occurred in September 2009 when all lots were supposedly sold by March 2009. HMMMMMM!

FACT: The Walkers reported constantly for nearly a year that the Project was progressing “on target” and that all was well.

FACT: The Walkers have deleted or altered all of their BLOGS that reference their Ayampe scam from their “Back Issues” pages. The pages they originally posted in 2009 have ALL been changed or altered. But, as I said, no need to worry. I have EVERY deleted/altered issue in its ORIGINAL format! If the Walkers are soooo innocent as they claim, why would they need to delete or alter their own posts?????

FACT: The Walkers ran an advertisement on their website on October 31, 2009, looking for new investors to invest a $10,000 deposit for “the LAST TWO LOTS” … when they knew already the project was defunct. How many of these “LAST TWO LOTS” did they sell????

Now, I may eventually get shot down because the Walkers have all the money they stole from us and the other investors. They know I have only so much money to keep chasing them.

NONETHELESS, I WILL KEEP EXPOSING THEM! SAVING OTHERS FROM THESE CROOKS!

I cannot emphasize this enough … Stay away from these crooks! If you do not believe me, do your own litmus test with them.

P.S. The following shows you the REAL mindset of the Walkers. In his cursing-laced tirade to me, John Walker states this, “Maybe one day I might use my inheritance to fight you. Wouldn’t it be a shame to use funds to fight you instead of repaying your investment?”

That simple statement sums up the Walkers in a nutshell. In his great love for his mother who he said paid for his detox [big medical bill - over $25,000, so he says]. John Walker cares more about his mother dying and getting her money than he cares about her well-being. That is truly sad!

P.P.S. Just a reminder for those of our “generation” … the Walkers need to remember the song by Nazareth, “The Hair of The Dog”!

Look at their faces!

Recognize their faces!

KNOW their lies!

THE WALKERS ARE RUNNING RIGHT NOW!

BUT THET CANNOT HIDE!!!!

The Walkers - Pathetic or What?

Since Jan 3, 2010, we have asked and demanded that the Walkers return our money. The time is coming very soon to quit asking them. Although we have lost our money (FOR NOW!), we appreciate your feedback. As the subtitle to the Blog states, we are writing this BLOG to help others from going down the rocky road we have travelled!

To show the extent to which Dixie Davey Walker and John Walker have gone with their insults to their victims, they have gotten so brazen as to write about “ECUADOR LAW”!!! Given the run-on wording and misspellings in their article, one can see that they wrote and posted this quite hastily and with some help from someone.

Here is part of the crap Dixie Davey Walker sent out in their "HAPPY 2011" newsletter on Jan 9, 2011:

“Frommy understanding, Civil Law is based on legislation,and there is little room for the judiciary to move. Common Law on theotherhand takes into account case law and precedents and looks more atsurroundingevidence. A “hand-shake” or verbal agreement ismore likely to be upheld under CommonLaw than Civil Law.

Insimple terms, after a bitter experience, in Ecuador itis extremely important to get all agreements written in legal terms inSpanishand have such agreements officially notarized. The difference is one ofthemain reasons why the profession of being a Notary is considered one ofthe mostprestigious you can have, yet not so in Common Law countries. [sic]”

The above shows that the Walkers do not have any contrition or remorse for their actions. NONE, NADA, ZERO!!! They are, quite simply, criminals trying to cover their tracks and “act” as if they have done no wrong. Innocent and decent people do not have to hide the truth. Nor do they run from it and act as if nothing has happened!

• Will the Walkers do the right thing and return the money they stole? Of course not!
• Will they stop this charade and stop trying to deceive people? Of course not!

As we say where I come from, “the proof is in the pudding.”

According to dictionary.com, a charade is “a blatant pretense or deception, esp. something so full of pretense as to be a travesty.”

That description fits the Walkers exactly! These predators are laughing all the way to the bank!!! What amazes me is that they are still advertising products that are deceptive.

 

These con artists have gone so far as to advertise their “NEW” scam … “Satellite TV and movies in Ecuador”. They have this in their Jan. 11, 2011, newsletter. If you will hover over the links, you’ll quickly see it’s another pay-per-click scheme by the Walkers. They rave and rave about how great it is and how it’s so convenient. Like EVERYTHING the Walkers say and try to sell, it’s a scam! Read some REAL reviews here about the products they are hawking: 

·         SATELLITE DIRECT

http://sinfonicapr.com/satellite-direct-review-watch-tv-on-your-pc-with-satellite-direct/

·         MOVIES CAPITAL

http://freesatellitetvonpcfaq.com/movies-capital-review-is-moviescapital-a-scam/

DO NOT hit any of the pay-per-click links on their site. That is how the Walkers get PAID for ripping people off!

If you find something of interest to you on their website, go directly to the website yourself and do some research. Remember: the Walkers are slick! They write their articles from other people’s copy in order to prey on the uninformed. DO NOT let these crooks get paid for their deceiving ways!!!

These are some of the “Facts” from their Ayampe scam:

1. The Walkers have NEVER shown any accounting of the money they received.
2. The Walkers had the last known investor deposit their money into a Banco Pichincha Panamanian account; whereas all prior monies were deposited in a Banco Pichincha account in Ecuador. Did they move the stolen money to Panama?
3. The Walkers did advertise Ayampe land deals for $10,000 down payment as late as October 31, 2009. This is LONG, LONG after they had “SOLD” all the lots and knew they were not getting any titles to the property. Does this sound like people that are “truthful” and “honest”?

The Walkers continue to show their arrogance and total disrespect and disregard for ALL investors they scammed. (SEE my BLOG: “Email from John Walker” dated Dec 22, 2010.)

They are truly pathetic. DO NOT; I repeat DO NOT do business with these people. They continue to think we, the investors, and the world are fools. They continue to think that I am going away. They are wrong on all accounts!

As one investor said in a reply to John Walker’s insane email to me (and you can include Dixie Davey Walker in this, too.): “You dishonored the trust people had in you, and then you have the nerve to call them stupid, and call them names. You have no consciousness, you are what you are a parasite of the society.”

DO NOT Fall into the Walkers’ SCAMS! That is, unless you want to lose your money and make THEM rich!

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED BY ONE WHO GOT SUCKED IN!!!

YES, the Walkers are truly Pathetic!!!